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In this episode, the UX Content Collective team puts ChatGPT to the test. Can it write recipes? Strings? Will it take our jobs and dominate us as overlords? Will those among us who never bought smartphones and held on to their flip phones “for the vibe” look down on us in the new world order? We discuss this and more in the latest episode. Listen in or read the transcript!
In this video clip, we give ChatGPT a writing prompt to help with CTAs for a pizza delivery app. Watch to see what it came up with…
Patrick: [00:00:01] Any questions before we start? Katie?
Katie: [00:00:04] What is AI again? I’m kidding. We’re ready. We’re ready.
Patrick: [00:00:26] Hey, everyone. It’s Patrick here. Just a quick note before we start the podcast today. I promise a very quick one. I just wanted to let everyone know that as we head into the New Year, I’m sure you have some training budget that you haven’t spent yet or you’re getting ready for the new year, thinking about the new skills you want to develop. Just wanted to let you know that this week until the 23rd, UX content dot com has 15% all of our self-paced courses, and we have a special offer. Every purchase of a self-paced course comes with our Career Course for free. Now, the Career Course is an interesting one. It is a course that’s designed for content designers and UX writers at all skill levels: beginner, intermediate, senior, all levels. And the idea behind the Career Course is giving you ideas, tactics, and tools to further your career. And one of the big things you walk away with in that course is a career plan. We take you through principles and guidelines and a structure for how you should think about your career. And then we start giving you a plan for identifying tactics and tools for improving areas where you might need to develop. So, you get that free with any course purchase during this week. So definitely encourage you to check that out. It’s until the 23rd. 15% off self-paced courses. Everything’s automatically applied at the checkout. No code necessary. So if you want some new skills, check us out. And with that, I’m going to get out of the way because it’s a really good one today. Talking about AI and ChatGPT. I hope you enjoy it. Have a great holiday season, and we will see you next year. Hello and welcome to The Interface, the monthly podcast about the latest happenings in the UX writing and content design industry. I’m Patrick Stafford, the CEO of the UX Content Collective. Joining me today, we have Bobbie Wood, the founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective, Gordon Macrae, and Katie Szymanski. Why don’t we go around and introduce ourselves, Bobbie?
Bobbie: [00:02:31] Hello, people. I am Bobbie Wood. I am the founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective, and boy, are we thinking a lot about ChatGPT and AI writing and what it means for our jobs.
Patrick: [00:02:44] Yeah, we’re all going to be unemployed. No, no, we’ll get there. We’ll get there. Gordon?
Gordon: [00:02:50] Hey, everyone. My name is Gordon. I run the jobs newsletter for UX Content Collective and help develop new courses.
Patrick: [00:02:58] And Katie. Katie Sha-man-ski as we established last time on the podcast.
Katie: [00:03:05] That’s right. Hi, everyone. Katie here helping the team with marketing and social media. So I’m very interested to talk a little bit about AI and its implications for content creation.
Patrick: [00:03:19] It’s been a pretty big few weeks, I suppose. I actually can’t remember when the chat tool was released. It was probably a couple of weeks ago. If you are listening to this podcast, then you’re probably aware of what it is and what’s happening in our industry. But if you aren’t, you should be aware that an organization called OpenAI have released a new chatbot tool and this chatbot tool is based around their technology called GPT and it’s basically, I mean, I guess you could call it a chatbot on steroids. The artificial intelligence that is powering this model is crazy good, to put it in simple terms. It is not only talking to you in the way that a human would, but it’s writing blog posts, it’s writing speeches, it’s writing code even. And the amount of freaky things that it’s doing has taken the Internet by storm a little bit, and social media is flooded with people using it for things like answering essay questions in education to coming up with recipes or stories and poems. What we’re interested in today is looking at what this can do for UX writers and content designers, or rather instead of UX writers and content designers. So I think we’re going to have a pretty interesting discussion. But now I think everyone here has tried it out a little bit. And I know that in some of our meetings, I know that because I’ve been obsessed with it, I’ve been playing with it and showing people what it can do. But Bobbie, have you had a chance to sit down and play around with it and come up with some pieces of content that are generated? And what are your first impressions?
Bobbie: [00:05:37] My first impression is, oh my gosh, if you are logged in, do not log out because I took a look at it. I played around with it, and then I made the mistake of logging out. And I’ve not been able to get back in because it’s obviously flooded with new people wanting to experiment with it. I think it is a brilliant tool, and we’ve yet to see all the ways that it will really accelerate efficiencies across content design, customer support, and even design in UX. And we’re not there yet, not anywhere close. So our jobs are safe for now. I’m optimistic about how we can put it to use as an efficiency tool.
Patrick: [00:06:26] Yeah, I think so too. I can’t remember who I said this to, but Gordon, I think we were talking about this. To me, the easy answers or the easy reactions to a tool like this is to say that it’s either going to take away everyone’s jobs or it’s going to take away no one’s jobs. And the answer is probably not to be a fence sitter, but it’s actually probably going to be somewhere in the middle. Gordon, I’m curious, what are your thoughts so far on ChatGPT and what’s happening with it?
Gordon: [00:07:00] Yeah, I’d agree with that. I mean, I think it’s definitely one of those very polarizing tools, isn’t it? That people like to freak out about and liken it to sort of the march of the robots replacing all of our jobs? I do think it is probably the biggest kind of leap forward that we’ve seen in the last sort of ten years or so. Like I would probably liken it to when social media like Facebook or Twitter first came out. It’s sort of an evolution in terms of how we use the Internet that I’d liken to those tools coming out. We’re still super early in terms of what it can actually do, and I’m kind of enjoying all of the people who are going on Twitter and showing all the ways that it’s flawed and trying to sort of beat the AI as if they’re in some sort of competitive job interview with them for their roles. I think it’s a tool that’s going to massively help us do our jobs better. I mean, it’s kind of like when calculators came along, and now you don’t need to learn math in the same way at school. You just have a calculator that does a lot of the stuff for you. And I think it’ll augment and improve our jobs in ways that we don’t even know right now.
Patrick: [00:08:18] Yeah. Katie, I’m interested. Have you had a chance to play around with Chat GPT?
Katie: [00:08:24] I was going to say that I actually got the error message that demand is too high, so I wasn’t able to get in before it took off. But I’ve seen the screenshots, I’ve definitely seen the banter and it actually kind of reminded me of…I don’t know if you all remember Smarter Child, it was an AIM bot that you could kind of banter with. And I remember, as a kid, always trying to outsmart the bot, right? Because you would ask it these silly questions and you would try to say, you know, jokes or whatever and try to get it to break. So it’s really interesting to see that evolution of now we’re all trying to kind of outsmart this AI. So no, I personally haven’t been in there, but I’ve seen the screenshots and it seems very powerful and to be determined what it’s capable of, right?
Patrick: [00:09:17] Yeah, it’s pretty wild. Instead of talking about theory for a second, let’s actually talk about specifics. So I’ve got ChatGPT open, and I’d love for us to just have a go at getting this thing to create a couple of prompts for us and we can start with something quick and easy. You know, you can create anything from marketing text to strings to recipes to stories. I’ll just get it to write a quick essay on something. So I’ll say, you know, write me 200 words on why don’t we say the difference between Swiss cheese and cheddar cheese? Then give me a shopping list for a recipe with both. All right, so the chatbot is writing now, and it started writing instantly. It said that Swiss cheese and cheddar cheese are both types of cheese, but they have some key differences. Swiss cheese is a type of alpine cheese, which is a group of cheeses that originated in the Swiss Alps. It is known for its distinctive holes or eyes, which are created by the carbon dioxide gas that is produced by the bacteria that is used to make the cheese. And then it’s continuing to write, and then, whoa. Yeah. And then, obviously, it’s pretty basic. But, you know, it’s giving you some pretty key information here.
Bobbie: [00:10:48] Oh, my gosh. Look at that.
Patrick: [00:10:49] The different flavors and textures. This means that they may not always be interchangeable, so be sure to follow the recipe carefully. So this is a pretty interesting prompt. And we are recording this, so we’ll be able to post a link to a video showing it. But Bobbie, what strikes me about this is that you look at this information and you think, well, this is information that I could find anywhere, right? Like it’s online. It’s not like it’s completely made up. Right. But the power, I think, is that you asked it a question, and then it’s giving you the exact right information right now without having to go through several links and click to find what it is that you’re looking for. I’m curious, like, to me that is such an optimistic thing, but I’m wondering what your thoughts are about something like that?
Bobbie: [00:11:40] Yes. So this is super fascinating. One of the things I’ve thought about when using ChatGPT is that it sort of has this typing speed where it presents the information for you line by line, and it looks like it’s writing. And I was laughing about this the other day because it occurred to me that probably the answer that it comes up with is borderline instantaneous. Right. And to calm down the humans, it looks like it’s typing and thinking.
Patrick: [00:12:09] It’s like that scene in Contact at the end where Jodie Foster meets her father, and he’s like, I’m actually an alien, but I’ve become a human to not freak you out.
Bobbie: [00:12:22] Yeah, similar premise. But the thing that’s interesting to me, I posted on LinkedIn a thread musing about what ChatGPT means for content designers. And one of the things that have been floating around is that there may be a job in the future for a prompt writer. And in this case, what you’re doing is you’re writing out a prompt and ChatGPT is matching it. Exactly, and that’s new and different. So in older versions of GPT, you might give it a prompt and it would respond very poignantly for about the first maybe, I don’t know, hundred words, and then it would sort of spiral out and it would go places you didn’t expect it to and you sort of had to refine your prompt. But in this case, you wrote a prompt and it responded with exactly what you asked for. And it’s really well written and coherent and presentable. That’s new and interesting and cool.
Patrick: [00:13:26] Yeah, Gordon we’ve talked a little bit about this. It removes that sort of blank page problem. It starts by brainstorming. It really eliminates the struggle of having to come up with something terrible at the first draft because as you know, whenever anyone creates anything, the first draft is usually inadequate. It’s the shitty version. So it sort of removes that part of it. But Katie, as someone who writes a lot of marketing material, including emails and social media and so on, do you look at this and think, oh wow, this can make me be so much more productive? Or is it a little bit scary?
Katie: [00:14:19] I mean, I think we can come at this from two different angles. I think from a content creation standpoint, this will definitely accelerate—I don’t think it will ever fully replace—the work that a human needs to synthesize marketing messaging. I think from a channel perspective, when we think about people who their entire role is to do paid search on Google, and now we’re thinking of, you know, potentially moving into this model that could fully replace a Google search-type environment in the sense that people are now going directly to this source for information. Which I think also then opens us up into the conversation around governance and like who is verifying this information? Where is this information coming from? So I think it really could change the paid landscape, especially in digital marketing. But from a content creation standpoint, I see it being an assistant, not an enemy.
Patrick: [00:15:20] Yeah. And I think to that point, like to take both of those points there. Katie your point and always… Oh, Bobbie, it looks like you were about to say something. Did you want to chime in?
Bobbie: [00:15:29] Yes. Yeah. I hope I’m not going off track topic-wise, Patrick, but the thing I kind of wanted to address is what Katie just mentioned, which is when ChatGPT produces any content, it’s actually regurgitating other people’s knowledge. Their writing, their work. The books people have written, the blog posts people have written. Marketing content people have written. And to me, one of the interesting aspects of ChatGPT is where is the line on things like copyright? For example, if you are an author of a book and ChatGPT is regurgitating things that you’ve established in a book, for example, and doesn’t credit you because ChatGPT at this point just writes it as if it’s the voice of authority. There is no referring to where it got its facts or its content. And so that to me is a big open question. I think this is on a lot of artists’ minds as well with the DALLE or however you say, that tool that creates illustrations based on other artists’ work. And so it’s kind of one of those questions about how comfortable are we letting this stuff kind of go through without attributing anyone as the author and without any fact-checking, which is a thing that Katie alluded to as well. If this thing is just speaking with a voice of authority, how do we differentiate? Like it’s another one of these things about the new reality of truth. What’s the source of truth? So that’s a big open question I have that’s not really related to our jobs, but just about AI in general.
Patrick: [00:17:18] No, but it’s an excellent point because the fact-checking point. There will always need to be someone who is fact-checking the AI just in the sense that just because if we think of the AI as another person, right. If we think of it that way, people always need fact-checkers. So that’s always going to exist.
Gordon: [00:17:38] So it does make it a bit harder, though, doesn’t it? Because to Bobbie’s point, the tool’s not citing where the information is coming from. So it actually makes the job of fact-checkers very difficult because you don’t even know where to start. If you’re fact-checking an article and you’re citing where the information came from, that’s pretty easy. But if you don’t even know where the information’s come from or if it’s accurate… We did kind of joke about the sort of wrong answers that people were posting on Twitter. But I think it is a valid point. Like if it churns out stuff that’s false, but people accept it as truth because it’s coming from the chatbot, it kind of becomes a bit of a self-perpetuating loop where that stuff gets regurgitated and repeated, and it becomes truth because you’ve repeated it so many times, which probably does need a bit of regulation around it. I think at some point in the future.
Patrick: [00:18:34] I think that’s true. And I also think that I can see arguments in the future about like, well, the AI says this is best practice, you know what I mean? And so it’s sort of using it to solve or end those types of conversations. When Bobbie, as you rightly pointed out, like the AI is only a snapshot, I shouldn’t say only…the AI is a snapshot of collective human intelligence at one point in time. And so it will need to be continually updated. And so whatever it’s saying, it’s saying because humans thought of it first, right? It’s not coming up with new ideas. Right. Which is what I think. Yeah. I guess a classic kind of thought of what artificial intelligence might be.
Bobbie: [00:19:23] Also, you know, we define creativity as writing unique and original prose and visual art. But part of that is humans also use synthesis as a tool to be creative.
Patrick: [00:19:39] Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Bobbie: [00:19:41] Yeah. And so where do we draw the line about, like, okay, that’s new synthesis, therefore it’s new. I don’t know. Is it copyrightable? Because it’s a new synthesis of other ideas. So totally. These are ongoing conversations even.
Patrick: [00:19:58] Yeah.
Bobbie: [00:19:59] Yeah.
Patrick: [00:20:00] Exactly. Yeah. Now I think we’re not going to solve that debate in this conversation. But I think like to get really specific. Like, I think it would be really cool to show how this tool can take part in the content design or UX writing flow. And so what I’d really love to do is to ask it a prompt about something to help us give us some strings. So for instance, like Katie, let’s say you’re creating an app that is, I don’t know, I’m creating an app that helps people order cheese to their door.
Katie: [00:20:42] Cheese pizza, Pizza.
Patrick: [00:20:45] It helps people order cheese pizza to their door. Write me some strings. Or whoops or button text that…
Bobbie: [00:21:04] That I can use in a marketing email.
Patrick: [00:21:07] I can use in a…well, actually, I was thinking that I can use that takes people to the cart to check out.
Katie: [00:21:17] AI knows what strings are?
Bobbie: [00:21:20] Let’s find out. Yeah.
Patrick: [00:21:21] Yeah, let’s find out. So let’s ask it. So it’s thinking and so it’s giving me a list of strings that I can use as a CTA. So add to cart, check out now, proceed to payment, place my order, get my pizza. Start my order. But let’s say I look at those, and I think actually I’m not really keen on any of those. And what I can say is give me more, but include lots of pizza puns. And then it’s giving me a continued list. Or at least it should because I’ve tried this before. Here we go. Slice it up and add to cart. Crust me, I’m ready to check out. That doesn’t even make sense. Toss me into the cart. That’s pretty good. Let’s get cheesy and place my order. Pizza my world. Like now, look, you look at these and think maybe one or two of these are usable. But again, like, think of the proportion of ideas that we as humans come up with that we would think are usable. I had a manager, he always used to say 50 ideas in 5 minutes let’s just get the crappy ideas out of the way first and then we’ll find something. It’s essentially doing that. Now, I don’t know if we would use this text in particular, but I think it’s just a good illustration of how we would use this in a workflow as a tool to start generating ideas. Because Bobbie, to your point, creativity is looking at two or three of these and going, okay, well, I like this part of this one and this part of this one, and let’s combine them and use it for this, right? To me, that’s wildly optimistic. I’m not particularly afraid of that. To me, it seems to very helpful, but open to debate that.
Katie: [00:23:18] We’re going to see every pizza place have these punny CTA buttons, you know, like if they’re all brainstorming with ChatGPT, I wonder if they get the same results.
Gordon: [00:23:29] I think that’s how you start to differentiate yourself as a writer, isn’t it? If what you’re doing could be done by chat, like if you’re looking at this being like, oh, those are my best ideas, then you should be worried because this will replace you. But if you’re looking at these and these are a starting point, I can do so much better than this. And you’re able to do that, that’s where the real value is, I think, anyway, for writers. And you kind of just got to assume that all of this baseline stuff is just table stakes now. Right. And the real skill is in editing.
Bobbie: [00:24:10] It’s almost the easy part of our jobs as UX writers and content designers and marketing writers. You know that coming up with clever copy is fun and challenging, but it’s not the hard work that we do. And this is something that I’ve seen a pretty broad consensus of people saying 90% of our job is strategy and conceptualizing what we need and not so much writing the strings themselves. Which kind of brings you back to that prompt designer thing? Like do we then rely on the ChatGPT to create all the strings? And is our job then to sort of envision what the experience looks like and then leverage the tool to help us create it?
Gordon: [00:24:58] I think so. I think you’ll start to see more of that like prompt writer/prompt designer start to creep into job ads. I think you’ll see it in engineering as well in terms of code prompts and how you write those. It’s going to become more of a skill that employers are looking for. And there’s probably one thing you can start doing now is yeah, some of this stuff is a bit jokey at the moment, but if you get in there and really master it, you’ll be ahead of like 95% of people out there in six months time.
Patrick: [00:25:29] Yeah, and I think to both of those points. You know, we look at this list of strings and you think, okay, yeah, it’s pretty basic and you might be able to use some of them. But what it’s not telling you is that two months ago we did research and found that actually people hate the wood crust and they’re not going to like seeing that. That’s a stupid example. But you know what I mean? It’s not going to do that strategy part of it for you. You’re going to have to take that and implement it and then be careful about what you’re doing with each individual choice. And that’s something that I think will always exist. Now we’ll see what happens with the AI. Obviously, the fact that it’s this good now means that according to what’s the…
Bobbie: [00:26:26] It’s kind of like a Moore’s Law thing or Moore’s Law.
Patrick: [00:26:28] That’s what I’m thinking.
Bobbie: [00:26:29] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That we have one to apply to. But if you think about the fact that ChatGPT can both write code and write essays, you combine those together and pretty soon you’ve got an AI that fact checks the AI and you’ve got an AI that maybe is able to be programmed to strategize across a user experience flow. So yeah, so if you sort of see how this might evolve, there’s a point at which you could say, hmmmm, maybe it will do it all, in which case, great, we’ll all go to the beach and.
Gordon: [00:27:09] Basically go.
Patrick: [00:27:11] Is there a future where you’ve got a Figma prototype? And then the AI is writing strings, but as you say, it’s looking at each individual frame?
Bobbie: [00:27:23] Yeah. And I mean, you can imagine creating a program that teaches the AI how to write each of these touch points or whatever, you know, I mean, it’s very conceivable that it could do it all. I don’t know that it will ever get to the point where it’s sort of delivering a wholesale finished final product or something like that. So I don’t think humans will be out of the picture anytime soon. That’s just sort of extreme thinking. But it’s huge. It’s huge. It’s going to have a big impact.
Patrick: [00:27:57] I think it’s so hard to think about this type of technology and make predictions because, you know, ten years ago, right, everyone was talking about autonomous cars and self-driving and how we’re not going to have any taxi drivers anymore because we’re going to have autonomous cars in ten years. As it turns out, the industry has largely abandoned that plan because they realize it’s actually extremely difficult to do and to do it properly. Now, sometimes at some point we may do it, but it’s taken that long to create an AI that can help us drive cars, it’s not inevitable, I guess is to say that we’ll create AI that does strategy across a huge number of flows, right? I think it will. We will push this technology as far as we can go and we will inevitably find weak spots where it can’t do something. And I think our job as content designers and UX writers is to constantly look for those weak spots and to think, okay, well, I can fit into that gap there. And that’s where I can help do more of my job. Katie, I’m curious, as you look at this, is this something that you think you might use on a like just a daily basis to help you in your work? Or are you sort of keen to sort of stay out of it for now and just continue to ride things on your own?
Katie: [00:29:21] If I ever get in, can I use your login? No, I’m just kidding. I’ve definitely used other writing assistants. I don’t think the idea of a writing assistant is new. So obviously I’ve used Writer and Grammarly and some other tools and we’ve talked about this, but it’s kind of akin to designers using Photoshop. So there are ways that we can accelerate what we’re doing using these tools. So I think as a brainstorming, jumping off point definitely would be very interested to see how it kind of evolves from writing marketing copy to writing novels and where it goes from here. But I’m not necessarily afraid of what it can do. I actually think it’s going to give writers more, I don’t know, not autonomy. It’s definitely an oxymoron. But yeah, I think that we shouldn’t fear ChatGPT just yet. I also thought it was interesting that the CEO had said in a recent interview that it’s really just an early demo of what’s possible. So there are definitely other avenues where this is going to pan out in terms of healthcare and research. And so I think it’s going to go well beyond writing and we just kind of have to embrace and roll with the AI and what it’s going to bring.
Patrick: [00:30:48] One of the things that I’ve seen in portfolios and job applications that’s come through in coaching sessions, and speaking to some of the other coaches on our content collective platform, one of the key areas we see people making is that they’re too focused on the task, so they’ll have a portfolio. And then one of their examples will be I was doing this task and my task was creating these strings. And one of the reminders that we’re having to tell applicants a lot of the time is you need to think about your work in a broader context. So how is this scaling up to the organization level, the business level? Like how is this helping the business overall? What is your individual task doing to help the business overall? And to me, that strategic layer is now more important than ever. Like if you’re just framing your work in the sense that I write strings to me that is making you vulnerable and you need to have that strategic layer across everything you do, which I guess means we’re all going to become semi-product managers at some point. I don’t know if you agree with that or not, Bobbie, but to me, that seems like it just it’s always been true. But now it becomes even more important to make sure that you’re thinking about your work in a much broader context.
Bobbie: [00:32:29] Yeah, and I think that’s usually, I don’t want to sound disdainful, but that’s sort of more like an early UX writer mistake to make where you’re sort of over focused on the strings. Right? But senior level mid and actually savvy beginners also will always have that strategy piece in mind. And that is the part that’s irreplaceable. ChatGPT is a generative tool. It’s not solving for all the intricacies of the job that we do where we’re interfacing across a huge number of teams, marketing product teams, support teams. That work is not going away and that’s really going to be where our value lies. It already is where our value lies, I guess is a better way to say that. We have to be good writers and we have to understand the context of every string we put out there and every string we offer up in Figma or a flow. But ultimately our value is connecting all of the words together and connecting that user experience and really speaking to users in a way that’s meaningful to them. And we know what’s meaningful to them because we’re human too. So for now, we’re all good for now.
Patrick: [00:33:52] Yeah, but the reason I say that is because we’ve had such an influx of beginners over the past few years. So there are a lot of people who have entered the industry who haven’t yet reached that sort of intermediate or senior level. And so if they want to get their understanding this type of how they can differentiate themselves and integrate this tool, but still, as you mentioned, just keep that overview of everything is going to be really important for them. Well, I think we’ve sort of reached the end here and we’ve we’ve solved all the issues that have to do with AI.
Bobbie: [00:34:30] We’re good. We can go home.
Katie: [00:34:32] Go home now.
Patrick: [00:34:33] That’s right. But do we have any final thoughts? Gordon, I’ll start with you. Any final thoughts here about the AI and what it’s doing and what people can look out for or think about?
Gordon: [00:34:46] I would just say, don’t be afraid of it. Like, sign up, use it. See what it can do, see what it doesn’t do, see what it does. Well, become an expert in it quicker than anyone else, because this stuff is only going to become more prevalent. So the quicker you can be literate in it, the better.
Patrick: [00:35:06] Absolutely. And Katie?
Katie: [00:35:07] No, I mean, I think kind of similar to what Gordon was saying. It’s just kind of you know, I remember I don’t know, ten years ago people were like, oh, we can’t go on Facebook. Why are we doing that? And then everyone got on Facebook. And so I think there are going to continue to be these massive technological changes in our lifetime and we just kind of have to ride the wave and hopefully we’ll come out on the other side. But no, I’m very optimistic, at least for now, and how it can kind of supplement the work that we’re doing in marketing and content and not necessarily replace us.
Patrick: [00:35:44] Excellent. And Bobbie.
Bobbie: [00:35:46] I would say that for now I feel like our jobs are safe. There’s not really any threat there, and I’m more interested in larger societal implications of AI and how it will play out over time. I’m really interested in understanding things like, you know, we have a Congress full of rather aged folks who are not very technically savvy, and how is anybody regulating this stuff or legislating around it or even thinking about it or talking about it? I just don’t see that happening at a centralized level. And so I’m curious how technology companies will respond to this and how kind of organically we’ll learn to manage it over time.
Patrick: [00:36:35] Yeah, that’s interesting because we’re only just seeing legislation respond to technology, or at least platforms released maybe ten years ago, like Uber or I think there was a recent case in New Zealand where DoorDash or Uber Eats delivery drivers are now classed as employees. I’ll fact check that. But yeah, it’s like we tend to be very slow in reacting to this.
Katie: [00:37:00] I mean, even just look at our government and how behind it is in terms of accessibility and the best practices that are in place there. So I retweet what Bobby said about legislation and government governance, especially…who is going to hold the keys to this thing and who is going to be ultimately responsible for it is an interesting one.
Patrick: [00:37:24] Alright. Well, I think that that brings us to an end. Thanks, everyone, for joining. And we will chat to you next time.
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