In this episode featuring Patrick Stafford and Gordon MacRae, we’re all about jobs. Jobs, jobs, jobs. And more jobs. We look at some of the best content design jobs on the market and discuss what the “market” even is for content design roles. Listen in or read the transcript!
Jobs mentioned:
Some other jobs around the world:
Patrick: [00:00:25] Alright, everyone, welcome to the Interface. The Interface is a monthly podcast from the UX Content Collective, talking about all things happening in UX writing and content design. It’s a duo today, a very special duo from across the world. Today we have Gordon and myself. Gordon, why don’t you introduce yourself for everyone?
Gordon: [00:00:44] Cool. Yeah. Excited to be here, Patrick. My name’s Gordon. I have worked with UX Content Collective really kind of for the last four years, writing the UX Writer jobs newsletter. So I guess this is like my expert subject on a game show. Yeah.
Patrick: [00:01:05] I suppose you’ve done a bit more than that. You helped write the Fundamentals course. You’ve been helping develop curriculum. As head of learning, you’ve done a lot.
Patrick: [00:01:22] Yeah. Let’s not downplay yourself. Right? And I am Patrick Stafford. I’m a co-founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective. And today, we’re going to talk about jobs. So a few months ago, we did a podcast episode where we talked about whether layoffs were coming to content designers, and that was sparked by the first round of layoffs last year in a number of different businesses. Some big, some small. Since then, it’s become pretty obvious that, yes, the layoffs did come for content design and or tech in general, as I guess as a larger impact. And today, we’re going to take a little bit of a bright spot in the terrible news of layoffs and look at ten or actually more than ten jobs in content design that are out right now. And we’re going to talk about them. And basically, we want to make the point that there are still people hiring, there are companies hiring, and there’s a lot of good jobs out there, even amongst what seems to be a waterfall of of layoffs. Every time I open LinkedIn, it feels like I’m seeing more and more people saying I’m laid off. I don’t have a job. And Gordon, before we get into the jobs, I actually wanted to get your thoughts on what you think is happening in the jobs market right now because it’s all a bit of a mixed signal depending on who you are and where you sit and where you look at things. Because in the tech market, there’s obviously been these huge layoffs. The latest rounds were at Microsoft, I believe a couple. I know Google’s had a massive wave recently. I’m trying to think of what the most recent ones was. Spotify was a huge round of layoffs.
Gordon: [00:03:06] Zoom.
Patrick: [00:03:06] So if you’re in the tech industry, you’re looking at these going, oh my God, what’s going on? Whereas if you look at the broader economy, things are actually doing quite well. In fact, the US jobs report that came out last week was better than expected, and there was a lot of really good news for jobs overall. So it’s not necessarily, I think that content designers are being laid off everywhere, but it certainly seems that way because there’s a huge concentration of layoffs happening in these large tech companies. I’d love to hear your thoughts about what you see happening in the market and how you’re interpreting everything that’s happening right now.
Gordon: [00:03:51] Yeah, I think it’s definitely feels if you go on sort of LinkedIn or Twitter, it sort of feels like quite a scary time for layoffs. It does seem kind of from the underlying data that unemployment isn’t rising at the moment. So these tech layoffs kind of feel a bit like they are condensed in the tech industry rather than sort of the broader economy at large, and I’m obviously not an economist, but just from the sort of the reading that I’ve done around it. There was a Contea report that came out that said that, if I remember right, that unemployment in the tech industry had actually dropped to sort of 1.5% in the last jobs report, and a lot of people who had been laid off or have been laid off have found jobs fairly quickly afterward, either within tech or in other industries. So it seems like what’s happening is that over the last three or four years, a lot of these big, big tech companies were kind of hoarding talent inside their organizations, both because they were flush with cash and were able to make those hires, but also because they didn’t want anyone to go to any of their competitors. And so there was a kind of a hoarding that was going on that we’re seeing sort of the layoffs kind of come about from that in the last few months.
Patrick: [00:05:19] Like, we want you, we’ll get you, and we’ll find a place to put you. We’ll find a place.
Gordon: [00:05:23] And yeah, we’ll pay you a lot of money. So stay here. But I think what you’re seeing from the list of jobs that you put together, and from what I’ve seen with the jobs newsletter over the last few months, is that there are a lot more jobs now available in what you call as nontech companies. And tech is now everywhere, right? So most industries are technology companies now, but a lot of the jobs you’re seeing are outside of the big Silicon Valley companies that we’ve been used to seeing over the last three or four years.
Patrick: [00:05:58] Yeah, I think that’s one of the big trends I’m seeing in the jobs that pop up in these searches. Typically, a lot of the content design and UX writing jobs used to be, you know, Google, Facebook/Meta, Apple, and a couple of those that represented in the jobs today we’re going to talk about. But because so many companies now have a digital element, you now have the opportunity to go and work in a company like this as a content designer and, in many cases, often define the role because you aren’t going into a team where there’s, you know, 1000 people in your community of practice. And so, you know, but there’s trade-offs, obviously. But there’s definitely a lot of opportunity there to spearhead and make your own make your own path.
Gordon: [00:06:48] Yeah, that definitely seems to be the case. There seem to be a lot more of solo UX writer roles or you’re the first hire. You’re the first content designer hire that we’re making type job descriptions that we’re seeing. And so I think if you’re the type of person that sort of thrives in that ambiguity and setting a discipline, there are a lot of jobs out there that are calling for that skill set.
Patrick: [00:07:11] Yeah. So I think the message from today is optimism. There are a lot of jobs. I think one trend that I’m definitely seeing, though, is that there are, I don’t know if you agree with this, but it seems to me like there are fewer entry-level jobs than there used to be. I feel like over the past three years, there was definitely a rise in the number of entry-level jobs, and that seems to have shrunk a little bit. It’s definitely still there. They’re certainly still there, and there’s plenty of opportunities, but not quite as many as there used to be.
Gordon: [00:07:46] Yeah, I would agree with that. I think it seems sort of as this sort of discipline has become more mature, there are companies that are less willing to take a risk on their first content design hire, being someone who’s brand new to the industry. When I look at years of experience that people are using as a proxy for hiring, definitely seeing a lot in that sort of 2 to 5 years bucket. I think more so in Europe, you’re seeing sort of 2 to 3 years is sort of what people are classifying as entry-level. In the States, kind of seems to be more like 3 to 6 [years] for content designer or UX writer roles. So yeah, I think we’re definitely seeing that as a trend. What I say to people as well when they kind of reach out to me with those sorts of questions, is that, yes, I think companies tend to advertise fewer entry-level roles. It’s not to mean that they’re not out there. But I think what I hear from hiring managers is they get so inundated with applications when they put entry-level roles out there that a lot of hiring managers are sort of shying away from posting jobs and hiring more so through their own networks or through networks of other people on their team. So it’s not to mean that those entry-level roles aren’t out there, but the way that you find them requires a little bit more relationship-building than just applying for jobs.
Patrick: [00:09:09] Absolutely. Okay. Let’s get into looking at some jobs, because I think there are some really interesting ones here. We’re going to bounce around from…there’s a mixture of seniority in here. There’s entry-level roles, mid-level jobs, and definitely some senior director-level jobs in here that we’re going to talk a little bit about. And as we go through them, I think it’s interesting to pick up on what companies are asking for, what they’re looking for, and some of the trends in hiring. The first one we’re going to talk about is…and by the way, I should say all of these jobs will be linked to in the show notes. So if you actually do want to apply for a job, there’ll be a link in there that you can check out. The first one I want to talk about is an entry-level one. And this is actually a trend that I’ve seen more and more: content design internships. This content design internship that I’m referencing today is at Atlassian. So you may be familiar with Atlassian if you use JIRA or if you use Confluence, and now they own Trello. So if you use Trello, you’ll be familiar with Atlassian. Australian-based company that expanded into the US once they became super successful, and they’re advertising an internship. I’ve actually seen more of these content design internships pop up, and this is a paid role. Although the ad doesn’t necessarily get into a lot of detail about what you’ll be doing as a content design intern, it does speak to the idea that you’ll be working with some great product designers, some UX managers, and you’ll be joining a team, and you’ll be learning from them. And I think it’s really cool that more companies are leaning into content design so much as a discipline that they can offer these types of internships. You’ve seen these pop up in the jobs newsletter, I’m sure as well.
Gordon: [00:10:56] Yeah, we see quite a lot, particularly this time of year. I think really kind of January to March is the hiring season for these internship roles both in Australia and in the States. So yeah, there have been a lot in the last few newsletters that I’ve put in that that have been advertising for internship positions coming up this summer. Most of the time [they are] paid positions, I think. Well, actually all of them are paid positions, but hiring six months out from when the internship actually starts.
Patrick: [00:11:25] Yeah. And so if you’re an entry-level UX writer or a content designer or you’re in college university, and you’re thinking this is something you want to get into, something like this is definitely a really great opportunity to check out. It doesn’t necessarily go into a lot of detail about what you’ll be doing, but the fact that you’ll be able to leave with some solid examples in your portfolio. You know, if you are able to get content, even just one piece of user interface text, pushed live in an internship like this. I mean, that’s gold. So yeah, would definitely recommend checking that out.
Gordon: [00:12:00] I think as well, it also gives you an in then for when you graduate or when you are looking for that full-time role. Having done an internship puts you kind of at the front of that queue.
Patrick: [00:12:11] Absolutely. Especially in the States, where there’s such a huge, huge emphasis on it, not so much in Australia, in England, or Great Britain. I think it’s more of an emphasis in the States. But yeah.
Gordon: [00:12:22] Yeah.
Patrick: [00:12:23] We’re moving quickly because we’ve got a few jobs to get through and I don’t want to take too long, but the next one we’re talking about is at Vanguard, which is a financial institution. Gordon, this is a job that speaks to what you were just talking about, the idea of more content design roles going to these nontech companies. You don’t really think of Vanguard as a tech company. You think of it as a boring investment firm where you can buy ETFs and mutual funds, and so on. But of course, as you said, everything’s tech. And so they have lots of online portals and suites and tools, and they are advertising for a UX content strategist in Arizona, of all places. I didn’t think that there would be a thriving UX writing market in Scottsdale, Arizona, but there you go. Yeah, it doesn’t actually say whether it’s a remote role, but I imagine they might be open to it. But what really stood out to me in this is they have such a core belief in what they do. Vanguard is built around this idea that anyone can invest. Anyone can invest and grow their financial wealth. And it seems like if you’re interested in working for a company that has a really great cause and is built around a purpose. Now, look, I haven’t worked there before, I don’t know what goes on internally. I’ve just bought their products before. But it sounds really interesting. But here’s what also stood out to me. They say in the ad you’ll partner with the Content Strategy team, internal UX, and business partners to support technical writing for client-facing digital experiences informed by client needs, market trends, and the latest technology. To me, this sounds like a super collaborative role, which means that you’re actually going to get exposure to a lot of different areas of the business. I don’t know. Gordon, what do you think? Would you apply for this job?
Gordon: [00:14:23] I’d like the sun in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Patrick: [00:14:26] I wouldn’t.
Gordon: [00:14:29] You’re in Australia, and I’m in the UK, so we’re coming at it from different angles. It sounds to me reading that they probably already have a pretty decent team of technical writers, right? That is sort of what they’ve probably built, have been responsible for building, the core of the product, and it’s about creating a good user interface for it and improving the experience of people who are using the Vanguard app. So it seems highly collaborative in that you’ll be working with developers, designers, and technical writers to sort of bring that to life. So yeah, I think this is kind of emblematic of some of those more sort of non-tech roles, as you say.
Patrick: [00:15:12] I really like the idea that they say business partners, because to me that means you’re going to get experience, and you’re going to be exposed to the idea that you’re actually going to have to demonstrate impact. So that’s some good experience. Plus, also, they call themselves nerdy sweethearts. They say they’re a bunch of nerdy sweethearts who care about making great products using human-centered design methods. So if you’re a nerdy sweetheart, I would check out Vanguard as well.
Gordon: [00:15:43] Just before anyone thinks it’s a remote role, it does say that you can work Monday and Friday remotely, but otherwise, you’ve got to be in Scottsdale.
Patrick: [00:15:52] Okay. No worries. You can take a long weekend in New York and then head over to Scottsdale. But hey, if you’re willing to move to Arizona for a good job and you want to go there, that’s an opportunity for you.
Gordon: [00:16:05] And I think that’s what you’re seeing, like with these sort of nontech roles as well, then it doesn’t require you to live in Silicon Valley or live in New York. Like a lot of these companies are headquartered outside of those outside of those cities. And so you factor in kind of cost of living is going to be cheaper. And yeah, there’s a whole bunch of different benefits.
Patrick: [00:16:30] Absolutely. And speaking of remote-first hybrid, the next job we’re looking at has a really weird structure to the way they want you to work or, rather, where they want you to work. So I’m going to read the description first before I talk about who it is. So this job is for a content designer. It looks like an entry-level role, higher than an internship, but it’s an entry-level role. Team members can work primarily remotely in the United States, Canada, Ukraine, Germany, Poland, or Portugal. Weird mix of countries. Conditions permitting, teams will meet in person a few weeks every quarter in San Francisco, Kiev, New York, Vancouver, and Berlin or in a workspace in Krakow. Now, this might be the weirdest working schedule or structure I’ve ever seen. And this job is for Grammarly.
Gordon: [00:17:27] There’s an even weirder part to it, though, if you carry on. Team members in this role are required to live within a daily commutable distance to San Francisco.
Patrick: [00:17:34] That is weird.
Gordon: [00:17:36] So you have to live in San Francisco, but you can go and work at any of these other places, I guess, for a few weeks a year.
Patrick: [00:17:44] Okay.
Gordon: [00:17:45] I’d ask about that one in the interview.
Patrick: [00:17:47] Okay. Yeah, I’d definitely ask about that one. That is weird. But if you love Grammarly and you love words, I mean, I’m assuming you do because you’re a content designer, then definitely check this one out. The first thing they put in their bullet points here is they say within your first 30 days, you’ll become immersed in Grammarly’s product strategy, design philosophy, and existing user experiences. You’ll begin to build relationships with your cross-functional teammates. By month three, you’ll be working confidently within the product design process, synthesizing research data, competitive research, and your subject matter expertise. And then it goes on and on. And then it says, by year one, you will have been a crucial part of shipping at least one impactful feature set and well on your way to scaling your influence across Grammarly’s product experience. So it’s a pretty nice pitch if you’re looking to actually make a huge impact on a company. Now, obviously, it’s as much of an ad as anything else is, but I don’t know if I was an entry-level UX writer and felt like I could move to San Francisco to work at a place like this, I think it looks like a decent opportunity.
Gordon: [00:18:57] Yeah, I think so. You’re seeing more and more of this type of thing where the company is listing out what you’ll be doing 30, 60, 90 days, and then a year into your role. I think it’s a really good thing if companies are able to do that to set expectations about what is expected of someone. But then also to think like, oh, I don’t have to do everything by three weeks into the job, right? I need to have learned this stuff by a year into the role just provides a lot more structure and kind of makes the interview process a bit more of an even experience for both sides. You know, as the hiring manager, what you’re looking for and you as the candidate know what they’re expecting of you.
Patrick: [00:19:40] Okay. This is the last one of our entry-level roles. And, Gordon do you use TikTok?
Gordon: [00:19:48] I do not, no. I tried to. I went on it once. I went on it once and lost like a whole day of my life to it. I had to take it off my phone.
Patrick: [00:19:56] You know, I have to set limits, but TikTok is if you are interested in working for what is essentially digital crack, then you should go and work at TikTok. They’re offering a job, and it’s based in Los Angeles. And it’s interesting. I’ve seen jobs for TikTok in Los Angeles. They have offices in Los Angeles, New York, London, Paris, Berlin, Dubai, Singapore, Jakarta, Seoul, and Tokyo. Not San Francisco, of all places. So one of those interesting companies that isn’t based there. This looks like a pretty decent entry-level content design role. They’re asking you to write, proofread, and edit high-quality UI text, lead content audits, contribute to content standards, be a champion for best practices, manage and prioritize projects, collaborate with content designers and stakeholders, and synthesize feedback. And there’s a localization aspect that you have to work with as a localization and translation team, which is experience you don’t often get anywhere else. I’d also say that if you look at something like this and you don’t necessarily have the experience in that area. So for example, looking at the localization team and translation, it would be worth it to address that upfront to me. They’re going to notice that you don’t have it. So you might as well say it. And if I didn’t have that experience, I would offer at least my thoughts and philosophy on how I would go about it. So while I don’t have any direct experience with localization and translation, I understand that you probably have to deal with the following issues. Blah, blah, blah.
Gordon: [00:21:40] They’ve addressed it as well and have a point of view instead of kind of just pretending that they have the experience with it.
Patrick: [00:21:50] We’re going to move to the next tier. We’re going to look at some senior content design roles. And I guess these are moving towards the intermediate to senior level. And Gordon, have you ever sat in an autonomous car?
Gordon: [00:22:03] No. Have you?
Patrick: [00:22:04] A self-driving car? No, no, because I don’t really want to.
Gordon: [00:22:11] But I was going to say, where have you done that?
Patrick: [00:22:14] Yeah, I definitely haven’t. But if you’re a content designer who wants to or wants to help develop that new field of technology, then Cruise is looking for a senior content designer in San Francisco, and they are building self-driving vehicles. There’s actually a number of companies. it’s not just Tesla, who are working on this type of technology. They mentioned working with all the typical people product designers, researchers, industrial designers, but also 3D artists. It sounds more like you’ll be…I saw that, and I thought, oh, sounds like a video game ad. You’ll be working, I think with a very different and specific problem set with this role. So if you’re interested in that, I think this would be a good role for you to to look out for. Definitely a unique one. You won’t have this type of experience working at, say, Vanguard or a couple of the other places we mentioned.
Gordon: [00:23:08] Yeah, it’s definitely a bit of a bet, isn’t it, that the self-driving car thing is going to go somewhere, But it sounds like it’s going to give you experience designing 3D interfaces, right? So like in terms of the stuff that’s coming around VR and Meta and depending on where you stand with that, even if self-driving cars don’t go anywhere, it’s giving you experience designing for that. So also, this is like the least SEO-friendly company name I think I’ve ever seen. I don’t know how you Google that company.
Patrick: [00:23:42] I think one of the good things about this is that this is such a niche area. There are problems that you will have to solve in a niche area of business that you may not have exposure to in other companies. So you’ll have to deal with I’m certain you will have to deal with legal requirements in this job that you may not have to in other areas. And so what you’ll be getting in this job is the ability to juggle those different types of requirements and having to learn which feedback to listen to, what’s important, what’s most crucial. You’ll probably also learn a lot about the science of driving and what works in that industry that, you know, it’s one thing to and a lot of the jobs based in San Francisco you’re working on a lot of the same material like you’re working on apps, you’re working on products that have a lot of established best practices. Not to take away from those jobs, but a lot of the best practice work is already established. And I’m assuming that best practices regarding autonomous vehicles hasn’t really been developed too much. You know, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that would be an exciting piece of…it would be an exciting job to explore if you’re into that.
Gordon: [00:24:56] I think so. And then it makes sense as to why they’re looking for someone who’s got a bit more experience because they need people who are comfortable with the ambiguity of there not being a set of best practices to follow for this and that you will need to figure it out and you won’t know what good actually looks like until you start testing things.
Patrick: [00:25:14] Absolutely. Yeah. They can’t necessarily take a gamble now. The next one. I want to talk about this role because it doesn’t necessarily say that it’s a senior role, but it hints that it is. And if you enjoy the big fruit company, then go and take a look at this job for a content designer at Apple. Now, Apple is a bit strange because in all of their job, well, maybe not too strange, but in their job ads, they are very specific about the line of work or the product line that you’ll be working on. And that’s obviously because they have such a distinct approach to each of them and they treat their products very, very carefully. And in this job ad, they’re looking for someone to work on the content design for Apple TV. Now I have an Apple TV. I have two Apple TVs. I love Apple TV. So I’m throwing my bias out there right now. So I think this would be an extremely interesting place to work. Interesting is a stupid word, but I think it would be. Side note: I once had a lecturer in uni who said, it was for my cinema class, and he said, you have to describe the last movie that you saw, but you can’t use the word interesting and you can’t use the word boring, which definitely makes you think. So Apple often throws out these roles for content designers for maps or content designers for Apple TV and the TV OS.
Patrick: [00:26:48] And if you know anything about Apple, you’ll know what they’re looking for. Someone very design-focused and meticulous. They’re looking for someone who, I mean they say in this ad, they’re looking for someone who’s a conceptual thinker, who is strategically centered. So they want someone who isn’t just going to look at the work that they’re doing in front of them. They want someone who’s able to think about how this fits into the entire Apple ecosystem, and so you need to think about that. Now, I’m not able to speak officially. I’ve never worked at Apple before. I do know people who have worked there, and I think people should know that it’s a very specific type of culture. Someone pointed out recently: why there are all these TikToks about what life is like at Google. There are all these like life in a day at Google TikToks and nothing from Apple employees. And that’s because the secrecy is so tight there. You won’t be able to say anything without them breathing down your neck, which also has an impact internally because from what I’m told, it’s actually very difficult for people from different teams to talk to each other, and collaboration is a little bit of a challenge. Again, that’s just what I’ve been told. I don’t know if you’ve heard similar stories from people who have worked there.
Gordon: [00:28:11] I haven’t in terms of that, but it makes sense. It makes sense that that would be the case. I think what these jobs are like, the Apple job description is obviously very different from what you see from other companies. Like they never say they want X number of years experience. They’re not looking for specific proxies from other industries that come over. The descriptions of the qualifications they’re talking about are much more competency-based than they are, like, you must have done X, Y, Z at another company, which speaks to me or sort of indicates to me that their interview process is going to be…they’ll have a very specific interview process that they run for everyone that comes through the organization. And if they’re looking for very particular bars around particular competencies, and if you don’t hit those, you’re they won’t hire you. So they’ll have a very high bar for getting hired, which makes sense. But it will be a very, I would imagine, a very structured interview process to get through.
Patrick: [00:29:16] Yeah. I mean, if you look at some even I mean, even the job, as you just said, it’s a job that is written differently. You know, it’s not written in bullet points. It’s written like one of those copywriting ads you see on Facebook. You know, it’s like one sentence per paragraph. They’re looking for someone with clear and concise communication skills, a keen ability to create work under minimal supervision, as well as package and present solutions to wider creative teams. They use words like uncanny level of curiosity. You know, it’s very, very Apple. And so yeah, but the trade-off is that you get to work at the biggest technology company in the world. And despite what some people may think about, like Steve Jobs’ influence and how that may have waned or whatever, the fact is that the biggest technology company in the world valued at over $1,000,000,000,000 now. Right. Like it’s $1,000,000,000,000 company. I’m pretty sure that I’ll cut that out if that’s wrong. But and everyone there loves design and they have a keen eye for design and perfection. So if that’s what you value, definitely check it out.
Gordon: [00:30:29] I think what I what I’ve heard as well is the content design team is still fairly new. Maybe new is not the right word, but it’s quite a small team inside a large organization. So I think the level of autonomy and the level of influence that you would get there is fairly outsized given the size of the company.
Patrick: [00:30:52] That’s either an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on how you look at it.
Patrick: [00:30:56] Now, Gordon, would you swipe right on me?
Gordon: [00:31:02] Again, do we have our legal team on that? Repeat the question.
Patrick: [00:31:09] I thought you were actually going to answer. I’m a bit offended now. I thought you were going to say yes. No, but perhaps you listening can swipe right on Tinder. See what I did there? Terrible. Absolutely terrible. This is actually a really cool role. This is a director of content design. This is the director-level role. We’re seeing more and more of these pop up. And obviously, they’re looking for someone to lead a team, people who can define content standards, and all of the general director-level responsibilities. It also says partner with our senior director of program management to facilitate smooth cross-functional collaboration by implementing an effective process for collecting and prioritizing requests for content. So it looks like they’re really looking for someone with content ops thoughts, the ability to understand how to develop strategy and systems and put those in place to create more efficient uses of their time. But this one stood out to me, this line: the team you lead will define our content standards and influence the overall writing direction of Tinder, which will affect the experience of Tinder members globally. So if you are looking for massive impact in terms of tone and voice, this looks like a really interesting role where you could be put in charge; of course, this is what the ad says, the reality might be different, but it definitely looks like if you’re looking to have impact, this is something that you might want to check out.
Gordon: [00:32:48] Yeah, I would agree with that. It’d be interesting to know if they’d had this role before or if there’s a new role. It doesn’t. I don’t think it says.
Patrick: [00:32:58] Yeah, it doesn’t say.
Gordon: [00:33:00] But it sort of seems like a new role or a repositioning of an existing one just in terms of sort of the, the scope that they’re talking about seems broader than someone who’s already done it and they’re looking for someone to replace them.
Patrick: [00:33:16] Yeah.
Gordon: [00:33:17] So it’d be interesting to find that out in the interview.
Patrick: [00:33:22] It’s funny because I vicariously observe the dating market through a lot of TikToks, and what I’ve observed is that Tinder’s experience to me seems there’s nothing engaging with it. It’s like swipe left, swipe right. Whereas if you see others like Hinge, there’s actually quite a lot of depth to these profiles, and they’ll be giving the users prompts to answer. Like, if you could live on a desert island, what books would you take? And so they prompt you to answer questions and stuff like that, which feels much more fun. And for lack of a better word, engaging than just a general swipe left swipe right experience. So if they’re attempting to expand on that and you have ideas regarding that, I think this would be a really cool role to check out. And we’re just going to look at one last ad, and this ad is for another lead content designer, and it is for Chime. So Chime is another financial company. But they’re looking for someone with experience in UX writing, conversation design, and really, really parentheses, we mean it, work to our user’s benefit. How much they actually believe that is up for debate. But they’re looking for, you know, this is essentially a company that you could still call it a startup, I guess, and they are looking for someone who’s able to create and evolve voice and style guidelines, use research data and testing, and so on. But the thing that tips me off about this role is that the last bullet point they mention is: wear multiple hats helping to work on any project is needed. Gordon, I don’t know about you, but to me, that screams you’re going to be busy, really busy. This is going to be an intense role, it’s not going to be for everyone, you know, for better or for worse. And so obviously they’re trying to clue you into the fact that you’re going to be working a lot. This is like the startups you mentioned earlier, the crazy startups that are not IBM.
Gordon: [00:35:33] Yeah. Yeah. I think yeah, it seems that would seem like a scrappy role. I think also anywhere that any time companies are mentioning how fun it is to work somewhere is often a bit of a nod to me about how much you’re going to be working and how many different products you’re going to be probably responsible for. Listen, some people really thrive in that environment. I think it’s good to figure that out as you as you go through the process.
Patrick: [00:36:01] Yeah, I think there’s probably a good conversation to have about how companies like this could probably attract more people by being slightly more inclusive in their language and the way they approach their workplace. But that’s a different conversation for a different time, I think. Yeah, if you’re looking for a really in-depth role where you are going to be leading an entire discipline, then this is a good role for you. I would say with these roles, what I’ve learned over my career, is that you really have to come to these types of roles with a point of view. You have to come to this role already knowing basically what you want to do in the organization because at this level, they’re not hiring you to train you, they are hiring you for your expertise. And it’s the same with the Tinder role. You have to come in and saying, hey, I don’t know anything about the company’s internal boundaries or problems, but not knowing anything, this is what I would recommend. A, B, C, D, E, F. And then you change that based on what the internal situation is. But if you’re not coming in with a defined point of view at that director level, then you’re just not going to get the job.
Gordon: [00:37:16] Well, so you might get it, but then you end up buffeted around between teams who all want you to do lots of different things when you’re in the role, and then prioritizing the work becomes an absolute nightmare. So I totally agree. I think you need to know what your point of view is going into something like that.
Patrick: [00:37:33] I would say this is one of those roles. If you look at it and you don’t really respond to it in any sort of innate way, then pass it by because they’re looking for someone with some deep thoughts about the industry.
Gordon: [00:37:45] I think that’s also where you see people who are looking to make a step up in their career from a lead role maybe into something like this. You definitely need to have that point of view to step up into it. And you can sometimes see people kind of overshoot maybe where they’re at going into a role like this unless they’ve had that experience.
Patrick: [00:38:07] Look, I think that comes to the end of our jobs list. We didn’t get time to discuss a few of the others. There are a few around the world that I want to include like there’s a few in Australia and a couple in Britain that I’d like to include. And so those will be in the show notes. The purpose of this podcast was to show there are cool roles out there for content designers at all levels. And so if you’re seeing all the news about layoffs, don’t get discouraged. There are cool roles out there that you can apply to, and the industry is still thriving. These types of layoffs have happened before. The industry goes through contraction, expansion, and now we’re just entering that period where being able to get a job in tech might be slightly more difficult than before, but definitely not impossible. Gordan, do you have any final thoughts for everyone?
Gordon: [00:39:00] Sign up to our jobs newsletter. We are pulling together a ton of these coming out every couple of weeks. And I think definitely there are a lot more jobs out there that I was seeing sort of a couple of months ago. So I think kind of keep an eye on things as we push those out and don’t get discouraged.
Patrick: [00:39:23] Excellent. Thanks, Gordon, and thank you, everyone, for listening. We’ll talk to you again next month.
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